An Interview with Rabbi Anson Laytner, Translator of "The Animals' Lawsuit Against Humanity"

An Interview with Rabbi Anson Laytner, Translator & Editor of The Animals' Lawsuit Against Humanity

Book description from the publisher:

In this interfaith and multicultural fable, eloquent representatives of all members of the animal kingdom—from horses to bees—come before the respected Spirit King to complain of the dreadful treatment they have suffered at the hands of humankind. During the ensuing trial, where both humans and animals testify before the King, both sides argue their points ingeniously, deftly illustrating the validity of both sides of the ecology debate.

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About the translator:

Anson Laytner is a happily retired rabbi, living in Seattle, whose career focused on building positive interfaith and interethnic relations in our community. His most recent book is The Forgotten Commandment. For more information or to contact him, go to www.ansonlaytner.com, and see the bottom of this page for a fuller bio.

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This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity.

Grant Wilson: Before we dive into the book, I'd love for you to tell us a little bit about who you are and your background.

Rabbi Anson Laytner: I'm a native of Toronto, Canada. I majored in Chinese studies and spent a year in China back in 1973 - ’74 before coming to America and going into rabbinical school. And so I am an ordained reform rabbi, but I chose, in part because of my experience in China, to focus mostly in the nonprofit sector. I did a variety of jobs there, doing community relations in the Jewish community, as well as 11 years doing housing for people with AIDS. After being in several other jobs, I ended my career teaching at Seattle University, which is a Jesuit university. So, one of the major focuses from my career has been on improving interfaith and inter ethnic relations. 

I'm an author and have six books to my credit, most recently, The Forgotten Commandment. And I am president of an organization called the Sino-Judaic Institute, which looks at Jewish life in China.

Grant: You mentioned that diplomacy between religions is something that you're interested in. In the book, The Animals’ Lawsuit Against Humanity, the first thing you learn when you read the introduction is that the story is a kind of cross-religious fable that passed through the hands of all these different people and different times. I noticed that there are some origins in India and then it's seen in Iraq and then it's translated into Hebrew and so forth. Was that part of your interest in this to begin with? That it was so cross-religious and cross-cultural? 

Anson: Not initially, no. Initially, what drew me to the story were interests that grew out of my rabbinic thesis on the Jewish tradition of arguing with God, which later became the book Arguing With God. I was researching how various biblical and Jewish figures down through the ages have argued with God and taken God to task for being an underperforming deity. And I came across a reference to this “Letter of the Animals” in Hebrew. And I said, “Oh, that sounds really interesting, the animals arguing against humanity.” And so I photocopied the whole manuscript, which wasn't very long, and took it with me on my travels, first to New York and then out here to Seattle, where a friend and I decided to start translating it.

As soon as we started doing the translation and looking at the introduction to the Hebrew version, which isn't in our version, I was impressed and amazed because I had always thought that Jewish-Christian relations in Europe were kind of tense. And here was a rabbi translating this Hebrew story, which itself was a translation from the Arabic, and the Arabic version had been borrowed from Sanskrit stories. So you've got Indian and Muslim-Arab sources being translated into medieval Jewish Hebrew at the behest of a Christian duke in fourteenth-century France. It’s hard to believe. But that was the culture in Provence at the time. It was a real hub for interfaith learning and a center for the transmission of Greek culture to the European world via Arabic. 

Grant: That's so interesting. At Earth Law Center, we do a growing amount of research into different religions and faiths and how they might support the idea of giving voice to nature. We look at Islam, we look at Protestant sects, Catholicism, Judaism, and so forth. But this is interesting in that it kind of brings all of these different faiths together. So would you say that even today, this book would be well-received or of interest to all these faiths from which it originated? 

Anson: Absolutely, I think it would be. I mean, it's still well-known in the Arab speaking world by its Arabic name. It's been published a lot. Sadly, the Hebrew version has not been published since the version that we used as a translation, which was published in Israel in 1949. Ours is the only English translation of the Hebrew text, although a couple of scholars, subsequent to our text, translated the Arabic version into English. They called it The Case of the Animals versus Man Before the King of the Jinn, and that's a much bigger book than ours. We really cut ours down.So I think between our version and this other text that I just mentioned, it's beginning to gain some awareness in the English speaking world, which means I think people will notice it and say, kind of like your initial reaction, “Hey, this is amazing. How could a thousand years have passed and here we are still at the same place regarding our treatment of animals?”

Grant: The book starts with this beautiful utopia of Nature on a remote island, and then the humans show up in this big ship and when they see this wide array of animals, they kind of lick their lips, saying, “We own them, they're our property, they can serve us.” That starts a thread that carries throughout the book – this idea of human superiority and of animals being human slaves and so forth. Can you share a little more about how the story is set up?

Anson: So, as you say, the animals are living in peace and harmony. Then a shipload of people get shipwrecked there, and they have a very hard time making a go of it until they notice that the animals are completely unafraid of them. And then they say, “Hmm, this is a great opportunity for us to make life easier for ourselves and to have meat and dairy products.” So they just grab the animals they need and enslave them and treat them the way people have generally treated animals down through the ages. A few of the animals escape and go to the king of the island, who, in The Animals Lawsuit Against Humanity version, we call the Spirit King, but in the original is actually called the King of the Jinn, the genies. 

Grant: Jinn or genies? Like genie in a bottle? 

Anson: Yeah, like a genie in a bottle, that kind of thing. And there's a long history of Jinn in ancient literature.They don't have bodies, they're ethereal, they change shape, they can be mischievous, troublemakers, but they're also part of God's creation according to the ancient perspective of things. So, in this case, the king of the island is a very benevolent, wise ruler, and he is outraged that these new creatures are treating his subjects so poorly. He demands that humanity come to his court and account for their treatment of the animals. And so the human beings send a delegation and basically say, “This is our God-given right. It says right there in the Bible that we are meant to rule and subjugate and govern. And so we're just doing what God wants us to do.” And then the animals say, “That's not so, you're never meant to treat us this way.” And then they go back and forth, with the human beings trying to assert their claim to superiority and the animals refuting every one of their claims.

Grant: So they start to plead their cases, and the humans are like, “Yeah, we have dominion over nature, we're superior. Here's all the reasons we're superior.” When you were working on this, did you follow parallel arguments being made in modern society? There's a long line of thinkers like Thomas Berry, who wrote about Earth Jurisprudence and this idea that we're all a communion of subjects and that human dominion over nature is the root cause of the environmental crisis. As you were writing this, did you have the current environmental crisis in mind? 

Anson: Yeah, and also another person that I was in touch with a little bit, Peter Singer. And in fact, when our book came out, almost 20 years ago, I had gotten so convinced by the story that I started clipping things from the newspaper, showing how close our environment was to disaster and how different species were disappearing. Now I'm even more committed to the premise of the book that animals need to be treated better because they are like our canary in the coal mine. 

Grant: I wonder if you've noticed any of the legal innovations that have been happening in recent years in this arena? Like there's a group, the Nonhuman Rights Project, who tried to secure standing in a court of law for Happy the Elephant.

Anson: I have been following some of those stories in the news and been very hopeful for them.

Grant: I feel that parts of this book should be introduced as parts of those cases.

Anson: They really could. And here's the thing, I mean, when Kolonymus ben (son of) Kolonymus, the rabbi who translated the story from Arabic into Hebrew in the fourteenth century, was doing his work, there was a whole debate in society about whether animals were equal to human beings in terms of their rights or whether human beings had some kind of superiority. So it's not just a contemporary issue: it goes back to the fourteenth century, and it even goes back to the tenth century when the story was first done. So this is a perennial debate: Are human beings substantially, qualitatively different from other living beings?

Grant: In the book, the humans make arguments like, “Well, we stand on two legs and you stand on four.” Of course, that's not true for all animals. “We have culture, we have arts, we have a conscience.” The animals respond that having four legs around the ground suits their purpose perfectly. All of the animals are made to serve their role in this larger earth community. And is having a conscience and free will really so great if you are using it for exploitation and for the poor treatment of life? I think these same arguments are also happening in religious circles. Is that right? 

Anson: I can't generalize to the non-Abrahamic religions, but certainly Judaism, Christianity, Islam, all three religions have strong teachings about how to care for other living things. But they also have equally strong traditions saying that humanity are overlords and are the pinnacle of creation and so therefore can do what we want. So you have this tension in each religion about which view is going to win the day. 

Grant: And even in the book amongst the humans, there are two camps. There's the ones that are like, “These are our slaves.” And then the other group of humans who sometimes go along with the humans that are the dominant voice, but other times they're like, “You know what? Maybe the animals have a point.” And so that's basically the environmentalists in the book. 

Anson: That's the thing - there's always been this tension, and I would say through much of human history, it's the side with the physical power, the brute force, that has won the day as opposed to those groups who want to listen to what the animals are saying. And that includes those of us today who are talking about reconciliation and coexistence, whether it's with animal species or people of other faiths or people of other backgrounds and ethnicities.

Grant: And by the end, it seems like even the humans who were the worst actors were starting to come around to the animals’ arguments, which is hopeful.

Anson: Other than the humans who disappeared. Once the bad ringleaders are gone, everyone seems better off. 

Grant: Yeah, right. You can take that literally, or they can disappear over time as the generations learn. You know, the first time I read this, I kind of chuckled at the phrase “winged swarming things.” I took that to mean the insects, in part since the bee is the ruler of the winged swarming things. So when I saw this stuff about bees in the book, I immediately sent it to our bees team, who are working on protections for bees in several places in Latin America. For instance, there’s a town in Costa Rica that has declared citizenship for bees. I felt a particular affinity for the bee and the donkey in the book. Are there any animals in the book that you felt particularly connected to?

Anson: I also really enjoyed donkey a lot. I was particularly touched by the sheep's plea when she says, “There we are in the marketplace, being chopped up and sold, and that's us! That's our bodies, that's our babies!” That really resonated with me. And I liked cricket. Cricket was very thoughtful.

Grant: When I read that line from sheep, it made me think of factory farming today. I'm not trying to give you too much work, but I feel now we need an updated factory farming focused version of the story, and a screenplay, for the lawyers, law students, judges, and so on. I did see a reference to rights in the book, which was interesting. It wasn't the focus, like the idea of who has rights and who doesn't, like us legal nerds like to talk about. But I did see our friend, the cricket, talk about animals communicating their right to a life free from violence and abuse. That's what I would put in my brief as a lawyer. 

Anson: I was just remembering that one of my favorite lines in the story is when the king asks the people for proof of their claim to be ruling the animals. The people say, “Well it is our God given right, and it says so right in the Bible.” And the king says, “Well, do you have further proof of that?? And they think for a while and say, “Oh no, the documents were lost in the Flood.”

Grant: That made me laugh, it’s so funny. Like classic lawyers like to say, “It is our word against theirs.”

Anson: I also wanted to mention one of things that we did in The Animals Lawsuit Against Humanity that was a big change from the original. In the original, the king says, “I rule in favor of the human beings, but you human beings should behave better.” [Cotranslator] Dan Bridge and I felt like the ending needed to be kicked up a notch, so we came up with the “10 Warnings” - if you see these things happening, be wary and know that you need to change your path. And then everyone lives happily ever after after that. In my new book, my one and only novel, which just came out, called The Forgotten Commandment, I've taken the animal story, condensed it a bit, and transformed it into this story of a secret manuscript. And there, I kick up the ending even stronger. You have the 10 Warnings, but I make it even more specific that the Earth as a living entity is kind of kicking back against humanity. 

Grant: Tell me more about your new book. Do you recommend that people read it as a supplement to the Animals Lawsuit Against Humanity, or is it a stand alone thing? Is it totally from your own brain or did you have any source material?

Anson: The Forgotten Commandment was published by Wipf and Stock in December 2023. It weaves together four different strands. One strand is tracing the history of a Sephardic Jewish family from the land of Israel at the time of the First Crusade leaving for Spain and Portugal, later leaving the Iberian Peninsula at the time of the Spanish Inquisition and going up to Holland and settling there. So, along the way you meet various important figures dealing with historical happenings like the expulsions from Spain and Portugal. You meet Spinoza, an excommunicated Dutch Jew, for example. And this family are the carriers of an ancient manuscript which is The Animals Lawsuit Against Humanity. It gets confiscated by the Inquisition and shipped off to the Vatican, but the family has an oral tradition that goes along with the story, so it's passed along from generation to generation. 

The second strand of the story is in the twentieth century and deals with a descendent, who is a scholar. He begins to track down the story, which leads him to the Vatican Secret Archives, where he finds the story, starts to transcribe it, but then his work is disrupted by WWII. So then he hustles his way back home, then leads the reader on an escape from the Nazis in France. This strand is based on the true adventures of one of my teachers. In it, you meet the future Pope Pius XII and rescuers like the American Varian Fry, and learn a great deal – as I did – about the Vatican libraries and archives. 

The third strand is the tale of The Animals Lawsuit itself, a shortened version with a different, more powerful ending. 

And then the fourth strand is a modern one where a scholar from Seattle meets up with a scholar from Toronto and they track down this man's work and follow his leads to the Vatican Secret Archives, and they succeed in translating this story. There is a big interfaith gathering where they reveal the newly-discovered ending to the story, which makes a big impact on everyone because it's eerily prophetic. But then something happens, but I won’t give away the end of the book. 

My point in writing the novel was to give the characters a chance to talk about human beings’ inhumanity to other human beings, and how violence and intolerance threaten other human beings first and foremost, and connecting our inhumanity to each other with our inhumanity to animals and the environment. By giving the opportunity to the characters to speculate about why human beings behave the way we do, how we could be behaving differently and better, and giving The Animals Lawsuit a greater environmental punch, hopefully that will make the message of the novel have a greater impact. 

I hope that the story will aid in people having a changed perspective, whether they are religious or not, such that they begin to look at other living things in a more sensitive and appreciative way. And to look at our environment as a whole in a more appreciative way, so we do less harm and that applies to everyone, religious or not. 

Grant: Do you think that the Spirit King would be pleased with our progress since the initial opinion? 

Anson: No, not yet. You're making a good start over there at Earth Law Center. 

Grant: Oh, we try. I’ve heard that for interview type formats, it's good to have short answers alongside the more narrative ones. So that can be a short no.

Anson: You can file an amicus brief on behalf of the animals. For me, it was a thrill to learn of your interest in the book and to find out about the work that Earth Law Center is doing. It does bring into concrete manifestation what the story is about, and I think that's wonderful. It takes things to a whole new level from theological literary plain to a concrete reality plane, and that's terrific. 

Grant: Well thank you for being part of this meshwork of folks in this space, and we love when religion, spiritual, academic, and law can all move forward together in exciting directions.

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About the translator:

Anson Laytner is a happily retired rabbi, living in Seattle, whose career focused on building positive interfaith and interethnic relations in our community.

During his career, he served as program manager for Seattle University School of Theology and Ministry's Interreligious Initiative, as a hospice chaplain at the Kline Galland Home and a grant-writer for the Jewish Family Service of Seattle, as interim rabbi at Congregation Kol HaNeshamah, and as executive director of the Seattle Chapter of the American Jewish Committee and of Multifaith Works, a Seattle non-profit agency that served people with AIDS. He also directed the Seattle Jewish Federation's Community Relations Council. 

 He is the author of the cult classic Arguing with God; The Mystery of Suffering and the Meaning of God; Choosing Life After Tragedy; and his first (and probably only) novel The Forgotten Commandment. He co-authored with Dan Bridge, The Animals’ Lawsuit Against Humanity  and co-edited with Jordan Paper The Chinese Jews of Kaifeng.  

As a volunteer, Laytner serves as president of the Sino-Judaic Institute (www.sinojudaic.org) and edits its journal, Points East.  He is a past president of Northwest Interfaith and also served on the advisory board of End of Life Washington. He is an active supporter of the New Israel Fund and J Street.

Laytner has a BA, summa cum laude, from York University in Toronto, a Masters of Hebrew Letters (MAHL) and rabbinic ordination from Hebrew Union College, a Masters in Not-for-Profit Leadership (MNPL) from Seattle University, and an honorary Doctorate in Divinity from Hebrew Union College. 

Rabbi Laytner is married to Richelle Harrell. He has two living daughters, three sons-in-law and five grandkids.

For more information or to contact him, go to www.ansonlaytner.com.

Meet Carla Cardenas—Environmental & Forest Expert for ELC

Meet Carla Cardenas, ELC’s Environmental & Forest Policy Expert

Interview by Keith Morgan for ELC.

To truly understand the Earth Law Center, it is necessary to learn more about the people who are implementing its goals all over the world. Carla Cardenas, ELC’s environmental and forest policy expert, is key in orchestrating the fight to protect Nature’s inherent rights to exist, thrive, and evolve.

Meet Carla Cardenas, a Champion for the Rights of Nature

Carla Cardenas is an environmental lawyer with over 15 years of experience; an International Board Member in the Forest Stewardship Council, the main forest certification initiative in the world; and the founder of Nunamaisha, which works to conserve the environment through the preservation of indigenous communities. Her expertise in international collaboration, forest governance, and management of natural resource conservation projects are a great fit with ELC’s mission to build an international grassroots movement to protect Nature.

Throughout the years, Carla has added new skills to improve her ability to fight for Nature—a degree of Master at Laws from Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles, a Master in Management of Natural Resources from the Catholic University of Ecuador; and a Master in Bioethics and Law from Barcelona University. Carla continues to fight for the Rights of Nature, forests, and indigenous peoples. She joined ELC in 2019 as a volunteer while completing her Master of Laws program at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles.

Now a full-time member of the ELC team, Carla’s incredible achievements for the Earth Law movement include:

An amicus curiae to defend the Rights of Nature in the pioneering Los Cedros, Bosque Protector case, which was chosen for argument before the Ecuadorian Constitutional Court in order to produce the first jurisprudence decision establishing the rights of Nature as plaintiff.

High-profile amicus briefs seeking an injunction from Ecuador’s Constitutional Court directing the HIDROTAMBO hydroelectric plant to restore the Dulcepamba River.

Documentation for the “Los Mecheros” case brought by Indigenous peoples to stop the use of open-air petroleum well gas flaring, which harms the lives of thousands of children and families in the Ecuadorian Amazon.

Get to know Carla in her own words—a Q&A

ELC: What inspired your devotion to the environment?

CC: I grew up in a small town in Ecuador where we have forest, paramos, mountains and where live Indigenous people. The town’s name is Otavalo. I was inspired from childhood to dedicate my life to protect Nature and apply the Indigenous cosmovision that implies respect to the Pachamama. It means that the environment is our “Mother” and should be respected and protected. The difference is that under this concept, Nature is not just a resource to exploit; it is a part of our life.

Later, when I was young, I achieved a love for politics and law, so, I decided to be an environmental lawyer when I was 17 years old. In Ecuador, there was not [an] environmental law studies [program], so I had to find my own way to become an environmental lawyer. I studied [for] a master’s in management of Natural Resources. With the combination of my knowledge in law and management of natural resources I was able to become an environmental lawyer.

ELC: Any advice for aspiring lawyers?

CC: I would like to tell young lawyers that please choose a law area of work with meaning. Law was created to change the world and make life better for everyone. Enjoy your life being a lawyer with cause.

ELC: How does a Rights of Nature strategy fit into your approach to environmental / social stewardship?

CC: Rights of Nature are now in the Courts. Rights of Nature are a new paradigm that in some ways picks up the philosophy of Indigenous people. That is why I feel so linked with this perspective and a way to see the world because I have grown with that. Also, I consider that the Rights of Nature are a lighthouse to governments, organization and communities that need to decide how to develop in a sustainable way.

Environmental lawyers can now use Rights of Nature as an ally to defend the ecosystems when companies are destroying water, forest, paramos, oceans, and mountains. This new tool allows them to raise the voice of Nature before judges. Judges are hearing us, it is true, it is happening, so we can see now several Court Decisions that prioritize Nature over extractive activities in Colombia, Ecuador, New Zealand and more.

“I feel very happy working with Earth Law Center in our cases that constitute precedents in Court to spread this new perspective of give Nature rights and for that better life for people also. I am happy provoking the change in Courts.”

ELC: What projects are you currently working on for ELC?

CC: I am working in the most important cases that the Constitutional Court in Ecuador will hold about the respect of Nature in Bosques Protectors from the damage that mining companies cause. The Constitutional Court in Ecuador needs to decide if the rights of Nature are violated with the mining activities that destroy forests, pollute water, and violate rights of Indigenous people to protect their Pachamama. These cases are the Bosques Protector Los Cedros y El Bosque Protector Nangaritza.

The ELC Latin American team is working also to declare the unconstitutionality of the Environmental Code, which has omitted Rights of Nature for the case of the mangroves and therefore opens the possibility to create infrastructure over them. Mangroves are ecosystems that are fragile and any infrastructure development will destroy them.

I am also working on Rights of Nature proposals in Peru and in Panamá. Earth Law Center is working to provide comments to the national assembly members and we are encouraging countries to recognize the rights of Nature.

What’s Next?

Earth Law Center is proud that Carla is an ELC champion for Nature. You can join in the ELC movement to change how humans interact with Nature as well. Consider joining our mission by donating your skills and time or make a financial donation through our website.

Q&A with Gary Wockner of Save the Colorado

Interview by Chloe Heskett for ELC.

In early July, Nederland - a small town situated in the foothills of southwest Boulder County - became the first Colorado municipality to pass a resolution recognizing the rights of a body of water. The town’s Board of Trustees approved a Rights of Nature resolution recognizing the inherent legal rights of Boulder Creek and its watershed. We spoke with Gary Wockner, Executive Director of the group Save the Colorado, who was instrumental in achieving this victory with the help of Boulder Rights of Nature and other partners.

The interview has been edited for clarity.

ELC: To start, can you give me a little background on Save the Colorado and the work you do?

GW: Save the Colorado’s mission is to protect and restore the Colorado River. Our primary programs prior to this year were about fighting against proposed new dams and also dealing with some current dams.

In January this year, we started two new programs. One aims to protect rivers around the world, so that we could branch out and expand our mission. The other is a Rights of Rivers program. So in January, we launched our Rights of Nature for rivers program working with Earth Law Center as a partner and we’re currently in communications with about ten towns and cities in Colorado and Utah, exploring Rights of Nature programs.

ELC: I know that you have been involved in advocacy work for the Rights of Rivers before you began working with Earth Law Center--how did you get involved with that work? What drew you to it?

GW: I’ve known about it [Rights of Nature] for quite a long time. I think the fundamental tenet or argument of Rights of Nature is that our current laws are inadequate - and they certainly are inadequate. In the United States, most of our laws are 50 years old, and they were not intended to protect rivers or ecosystems. The rivers and ecosystems in the United States, across the planet really, are under extreme threat. So we need new laws.

ELC: What are the goals of the partnership between Earth Law Center and Save the Colorado?

GW: The program that we have launched is trying to work with communities and do kind of a soft, friendly version of Rights of Nature where we pass resolutions at the local level that help communities recognize that rivers should have their own rights and also have the right to exist and keep flowing through their communities.

There’s another piece to why we launched this program: the rivers that are around the Colorado basin are under extreme assault. There’s been an increasing movement of Wall Street types, big investors and hedge funds moving in and buying up ranches, farms and water rights. So, rivers and communities are increasingly under assault because of the increased privatization and monetization of water. This program is a start to try to move the conversation in a new direction and give communities some tools to at least protect rivers that flow through their towns.

ELC: Where is the focus of that work at the moment?

GW: We’re having this conversation in Nederland, Boulder, Lyons, Fort Collins, Steamboat Springs, Vail, Eagle, Durango, Moab, [and] Bluff. Those conversations are all at different levels = some are introductory and some are a bit farther.

ELC: How does the Rights of Nature framework fit into the work Save the Colorado has been doing the last several years? Has it substantially changed your mission?

GW: We were primarily a law enforcement organization, enforcing federal laws, state laws and local laws. We launched this new program because the laws are weak. In the state of Colorado for example, the local laws vary dramatically. In some places they can be very strong, in some places they don’t exist at all. So there’s a vacuum and there’s a need for stronger laws. We recognize this is a long process, but we want to be at the beginning, at the ground floor you might say. We wanted to help it grow, and that’s what we’re trying to do. I think it’s important for us to just think more proactively about the future, too, and where the legal system and environmentalism in general needs to go.

In the United States the environmental movement has gotten sucked into these big bureaucratic, administrative processes. There are some places where there’s on-the-ground action and work, but it’s primarily big, green organizations who have corporate or large foundation funding and they’re just kind of, in my opinion, stale and old and stuck in a 50-year-old paradigm. Or worse, the environmental movement is being dragged into what I would call a neo-liberal approach to environmentalism which is around markets and market-based environmentalism, and especially around [creating] water markets as a tool to try to protect rivers.

ELC: Do you think the counterfactual to that neo-liberal model starts with the kind of work you’re doing with these individual townships or cities?

GW: Yes, I think we’re trying to create points of light and we’re trying to connect those throughout the watershed. Over time we’re trying to grow a movement. It’s small, it’s dramatically underfunded, but in my opinion, it’s going in the right direction. It’s work that needs to happen if we’re actually going to protect nature and it’s work that I want to do.

ELC: What do you think about the potential for Rights of Nature resolutions or ordinances at the local level to spread and become integrated into state or even federal law? How far down the road do you think that is?

GW: That would be the ultimate goal. What we’re trying to do at Save the Colorado is a softer and friendlier approach than what other Rights of Nature advocates have tried. We work to start a conversation and create points of light. Every resolution that we create will have a clause stating the community’s goal here is to slowly over time change state laws. We’re not being confrontational [and] what we’re doing is not enforceable by law. We’re creating resolutions that are really a statement of opinion about how communities feel about Nature and watersheds and then over time the concept would be that it would start to change the public dialogue. I think once we get one, two [or] three cities in the state of Colorado, the conversation will grow.

What are the primary challenges you see, not just for Save the Colorado, but specifically for the Rights of Rivers movement and this partnership project with ELC?

The good news is that an increasing number of people and decision makers have heard of it [Rights of Nature]. Five years ago, it wasn’t even on the map. But still, when you’re dealing with town boards and city councils, you’ve got to realize that this is new territory for most of them and you’ve got to respect where they’re at and where they’re coming from rather than just try to hit them with something and knock it down their throat. It’s got to be softer and gentler, and it’s got to be introductory.

It takes a lot of legwork. You’ve got to find someone on a board or a commission or find a friendly council member and just have a friendly conversation.

The challenge is you’re introducing a new topic that can seem too far out there or controversial, so you have to be cognizant that you’re talking to people who might be open to new ideas, but they’re going to have to venture into some new territory and learn some new stuff, and that’s a process.

ELC: Finally, what’s your personal take on the Rights of Nature movement?

GW: It’s not a new or foreign concept to me. It’s been part of my mindset since I was in college in the late 1970s. So this has been a part of my life throughout my professional career, and now I’m at a point in my career where I can do exactly what I want to. This is the story I want to tell, this is the story I think needs to be told, and this is the direction that the environmental movement needs to go.

Earth Law Center is excited to continue working with Mr. Wockner and Save the Colorado to advance Rights of Nature conversations in local communities throughout the Colorado watershed. If you are interested in starting a conversation about Rights of Nature in your community, reach out to Gary Wockner (gary@savethecolorado.org) or Grant Wilson (gwilson@earthlaw.org).

ELC Introduction: Getting to Know Claudia Brindis, ELC's Mexico Lead

ELC Mexico Lead Claudia Brindis

Interview by Jason Baran for ELC.

Claudia Brindis has dedicated her career to advancing the Rights of Nature in Mexico and globally. Officially, she is ELC´s International and Mexico Lead, but she prefers, "strategic partner for Mexico." She is also an expert within the United Nations Harmony with Nature program as well as a teacher, therapist, coach, and facilitator.

Earth Law Center: Let’s start at your beginning. When you were a kid, what did you want to be when you grew up? And, what led you to this career?

Claudia Brindis: When I was a child, I liked to sing to Nature. I remember that I sang to the Sun and I sang to the stars. Later, while at university, I learned to be a strategist and to devise action plans that would give me the best results. At the same time, through yoga and meditation, I became aware of myself and everything around me. In addition, over the years I specialized in human development, community development and environmental education. When I was a child I did not know about the Rights of Nature and the truth is I never imagined working on this, but now it has become my life mission.

ELC: If you could get people to do one thing to help advance Rights of Nature and subsequently, environmental conservation, what it would that be and why?

CB: I think one of my most important responsibilities is to help people change the way they think. The beliefs that we have as a modern world and as a society are what have caused our suffering. Now we are suffering a pandemic, water and air pollution, climate change. We have affected the balance of Nature and life, but if we change these ideas of consumerism and exploitation, we can save ourselves and build a just new world but the change begins in oneself. We cannot change the collective reality just by wanting to, but we can change our individual reality by taking care of our body, taking care of Nature and taking care of animals. If we are many people making these deep changes in our lives, we will be able to change the collective reality. That’s what is already happening with the international movement for the Rights of Nature.

ELC: How do you encourage people to change their thoughts and take action around conservation?

CB: First, reminding them that we are alive, that we have the great blessing of existing in this time of many challenges but also of great changes. In the Toltec tradition, the tradition of my ancestors, we honor death and recognize it as a great teacher and counselor, because if we were aware every day that we are going to die and that our death can occur at any moment, we would not be wasting time. We would be looking for ways to leave a legacy, conserving species, restoring ecosystems and cleaning up rivers. There are so many things that we could do and be in this process.

ELC: Getting back to Rights of Nature, what would you say is your greatest success in advancing the Rights of Nature in Mexico or globally? And, what’s next?

CB: My greatest success is that legislators from more parliamentary groups are getting to know ELC’s work, are becoming interested in the Rights of Nature, and are including them in the laws. So, no matter the political party, the important thing is that we can support them in these crucial moments for Mexico and the world, to generate the paradigm shift we want. The next success is carrying out integral projects of conservation of species, restoration of Nature and environmental education. In addition, doing more clinics in universities on Theory and Practice in Environmental Law and Rights of Nature. The first one will be held online from March 15th to 26th with students from the UAM (Autonomous Metropolitan University).

ELC: Diving a little deeper, what are the current projects you’re working on? What is it you’re hoping to accomplish?

CB: I continue to work with the wonderful ELC team to get the constitutional reform proposal approved to include the Rights of Nature in the Constitution of Oaxaca, as well as the proposed law for the Defense and Recognition of the Rights of Rivers and other Water Sources in the State of Oaxaca. We began working on both proposals at the end of last year. We are also working on the proposal for a new Water Law for Mexico City and we are following up for the approval of the proposal for the new General Water Law which is at a national level. We are also supporting the approval of the proposed constitutional reform at the federal level to include the Rights of Nature. What we wish to achieve is that the Rights of Nature and the Rights of Rivers and other Water Sources are recognized in more laws and constitutions in Mexico.

ELC: What are the repercussions of failing to enact these policy reforms? What scares you the most about climate change and continued environmental degradation?

CB: More people, ecosystems and species die. That is why it is so important to make a systemic change. As the elders of many Indigenous traditions would say: when we honor and respect Mother Nature and realize that she does not belong to us, but that we belong to her as her children, then we will realize that our life is connected to hers and to the life of all species. That is how we will transform the reality of the world.

ELC: You obviously have a deep passion for Nature and for conservation, but what energizes you outside of work? What are your hobbies and interests?

CB: I get energized by traveling, getting to know new places, new people, new cultures. I am a traveler and I like to marvel at my country and the world. I like to read, learn more about different topics, topics that nurture me as a person. It also gives me energy to listen to people, learn from each person I meet on my way, and observe the trees, the clouds, the wind, the birds, the rivers. I learn a lot by observing Nature.

ELC: What is your favorite outdoors spot in Mexico and why?

CB: In Mexico City, my favorite place is Chapultepec Park, which is bigger than Central Park in New York. I love it because, besides being a beautiful place with trees, flowers, and animals, it has a rich history of my ancestors. Imagine, there you can find a pyramid and the only castle in Latin America that was inhabited by European kings.

ELC: In that vein, what would we most likely find you doing on the weekend?

CB: Enjoying life! In Mexico, I have learned about the wisdom of my ancestors and I try to practice that wisdom on the weekend, as well as dance, do exercise, eat delicious food, laugh, share with people I care about. I don't think I do this only on the weekends. I try to do it every day.

ELC: You clearly embrace a harmonic existence with Nature. How can the rest of us best live in harmony with the environment?

CB: First, you must know yourself because, to live in harmony with Nature, the human being needs to realize that they are Nature, part of this web of life, and that they are as important as the rest of the species. If we harm Nature, we harm ourselves as human beings. Failing to recognize that means we will not survive as a species.

ELC: What have you seen that gives you hope for a sustainable environment and for humans living in harmony with Nature?

CB: What gives me hope is that more people are waking up, listening to the call to become Mother Nature's guardians, and putting their talents and abilities at the service of this great purpose. I have no doubt that we will find solutions to remedy our mistakes, but we need to keep working on that and unite to make it happen.

ELC Inspires: Q&A with Water Advocacy Director Dr. Leonard

To make real change, all voices must be heard. At Earth Law Center, we strive to bring together passionate and seasoned experts from all domains of Nature. Water rights is one of the centers of our work, and for that we are grateful to have the help of Dr. Kelsey Leonard, a water scientist, legal scholar, policy expert, writer, and enrolled citizen of the Shinnecock Nation, and an assistant professor at the University of Waterloo. Her journey will inspire those interested in practicing environmental law, and who want to orient their work towards the Rights of Nature principles.

A Confluence of Energy

Water has long been a special force in Dr. Leonard’s life. First earning her Master of Science in Water Science Policy and Management from the University of Oxford, she went on to earn her JD in environmental law at Duquesne University in Pittsburgh.

Duquesne University in Pittsburgh is quite unique in the sense that the city is built at the confluence of three major rivers in the United States: the Allegheny, Monongahela and Ohio join here. Even leaders from across the globe, like the Dalai Lama have remarked that this confluence holds a powerful energy. For Dr. Leonard, it holds a special meaning.

“This unique space of three rivers meeting was also very formative to how I understand environmental law and environmental justice. Not only is it a natural wonder of the confluence of three major rivers, but it's also an area that has been heavily degraded and polluted over centuries of industrialization, in one of America's steel belt cities.”

After her experience in Pittsburgh, she went on to earn her PhD in Political Science from McMaster University. Her experiences in Pittsburgh helped form her PhD research:

“I explored PhD programs where I could research and create the foundation of literature to which the courts could turn to inform their decision making on those cases of first impression.

What that means is that the court has never seen something in that area of law before, so they have to consider secondary literature to inform their decision. What I found at the time, particularly in the case of Indigenous water law, was that there just really wasn't a lot of secondary literature.”

Photo by ZEN JP on Unsplash

Who is Water?

Through her research working with Indigenous Peoples and non-Indigenous Peoples, she noticed a difference in the approach to Nature starts with communication and values:

“I was starting to hear from Indigenous water protectors about the struggle they had with communication with their non-Indigenous allies. They would say that we (Indigenous People) are relating to the water as a being that is living, that has its own spirit, that is its own entity. We say, ‘Who is water?’. And yet, when they spoke to their non-Indigenous counterpart it was as if they were speaking a different language, they were talking about water as a ‘What?,’ as a commodity, as a resource, as something to be consumed, with no context or concern for the inherent rights of water as a living being in and of itself.” 

A voice for water

Raising Consciousness 

All this led Dr. Leonard to create more of these reflexive conversations, eventually leading to a TED Talk: Why Lakes and Rivers Should Have the Same Rights as Humans.

“That's how I came into contact with Earth Law Center. I am trying to continue to promote that messaging, and find those spaces of confluence, just like the rivers, where we are able to come into conversation across societies and across jurisdictions to do better for the water.”

Dr. Leonard has advice for others in the legal or political science fields who want to get involved:

“lf others are looking to contribute (one area to work on) is to develop case studies and best practices for the implementation of Rights of Nature in the context of freshwater and ocean systems.”

Earth Law Center is proud to have leaders like Dr. Leonard on our team, and hope that you’ll consider joining our mission. If you want to make a difference in how humanity approaches and interacts with Nature, you can get involved with the organization by donating your skills and time. You can also make a financial donation through our website.